Could This Biotech Replace Farm Chemicals? | Matias Figliozzi, Co-Founder & CEO @ UniBaio

Today on this show we have Matias Figlotsi. He is a co-founder of company Unibio that is developing a novel technology that helps plants absorb chemicals more efficiently. Now if you're somebody that does not like the idea of chemicals on your food at all, I'm with you. However, the reality of the situation is that globally, even

with the introduction of organic products and things like this, as Matias talks about, a significant portion of the world's food is still mass- prodduced by uh huge companies and big farms that uh rely on these types of chemicals to continue producing the food. So uh the objective for Unibio is to uh infuse with these chemicals uh

make the uptake of these chemicals more efficient so that the farmers can use less as he talks about the application of this technology. only took them a long time to figure out but uh it is very promising as far as the adoption of more sustainable practices in mass farming uh while we figure out you know

the organic uh side of things. So uh very good conversation very uh inspiring for me uh I know it will be for you as well. Thank you as always to our sponsors clean techch growth lab. If you're looking to grow in clean techch they are the people to do it with and the producers of this podcast craz and

friends. And with that, I give you matias. Oh, welcome to another episode of The Grove. Shout out to our sponsors mentioned just before this, but without them, it would not be possible to interview awesome people doing awesome things like Matias. Welcome.

>> Thank you, Blake. It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. >> This is awesome. I think your technology is exciting. I think what we just talked about, how you guys are going to market is exciting. So before we get into any of that, if you could give a brief introduction of yourself and what you're

building. >> Great. So you will notice that I have an accent. So I am originally from Argentina, living now in New York State in Ithaca. Um I am an economist by training. I came from a family of artists, fifth generation of actresses and actors. So I am like like the black sheep of the

family because I decided to not to be an artist. Erh. So I never so I I don't come from agricultural background or a science background even though I'm working with biotech nanotech and agriculture because I have four amazing female scientists as co-founders who have been studying plants for decades and we decided a few years ago to build

unibio mainly to help farmers to use less chemicals in our food. So we are working on that. We are developing the business from the US and at the same time from Argentina where where I'm originally from. I'm trying to reach global markets or all countries.

>> Yes. So So then so then how long ago was it that you co-ounded Uni Bio? >> We incorporated the company in 2023 >> 22 sorry but uh we met with my co-founders in during the pandemic. So we were talking a lot about the idea in quarantine like without being able to do

anything else than just being in a computer and we were like brainstorming how to approach the market, what should we do with the tech, all all the ideas they have and in 2021 I quit my job and I started to work full-time on on the project and finally when we had a lot of

signals that it was a really good idea, we incorporated the company and we started to fund raise and and develop more a startup journey like traditional startup journey. >> So um I imagine the product the technology the go to market I imagine all of that is different now than it was when you started but can you describe at

least right now what the uh the technology is? >> Yes. So we have something so it's an additive that the farmers can use to mix with the pesticides they normally use the medicine or nutrients they use to feed our the crops our food and this additive that is made from upcycled shrimp waste so like

crustaceian shells makes the plant uptake more so we can use less so then this IV is an optimizer we are the efficiency of the crop protection products. And when you mix this powder, like adding sugar to a coffee, you get better results, better crop protection. And more importantly, we give the plant an active role to

activate the natural defense system. At the same time, we are using the artificial defense system and this create a lot of synergies that make the plant grow more. So the farmers can experience more yield. So it's to summarize it, it's an additive that gives the farmer more yield and less disease using less of the chemicals they

normally use. >> Oh, how how I guess putting it that way, how hasn't something like this been uh developed or brought to market before? >> Uh well, there is different approaches to the same problem. So what what we're doing is what we're doing is optimizing the the crop protection industry. The normal approach in the past 20 years was

trying to develop a replacement for the chemicals. So everyone knows or we shouldn't normally we don't need to explain too much that having a lot of chemicals in our food is something bad. So because people is willing to have less chemicals in our food, food companies are willing to improve the quality and that in the past 20 years

translated into organic and a lot of organic product came to the market and that for the farmer means biological products normally bacteria made product, algae made product, different things that came from the nature that could create the same solution in terms of protecting the plant from a disease or make the plant growth bigger without

using or abusing a chemical. That was the common approach. Then more recently when we find out that organic is not enough because stills a very niche part of the market. If you go to a supermarket most of the fruit and vegetables are not organic and in the US or Europe there is a lot of organic

product but if you go to Argentina or if you go to Africa is it's really difficult to find everything organic. So globally we like less than 10% is is organic. So we still rely on the very same old chemicals to feed global population. So the challenge is just became more significant than just creating organic product. And then

is where a lot of startups started to work on why not optimizing the chemicals that we cannot replace. And there appear a lot of drone startups, robotics startup like robers that go through the field and just spray the chemical only when it's needed. Because today we are not super efficient. We we use planes

literally that flies over the the field and showers everything in chemicals that it's like having a headache and take a shower of aspirin instead of taking aspirin. So it's it's not really efficient and we have been doing that for 40 years. And so the the logical evolution of that was why why not instead of doing that and

wasting most of the chemical because at the end most of them doesn't reach the plant. Why not be more efficient and use a drone that has AI and just spray a little bit of the chemical only when they see the disease. So that's the natural evolution of where we're going.

Our approach is a little bit different but but because we are using like different tools. So this out of the box we are using the nature itself. We are using the plant to help us help the plant. And if you want to to group our technology in a group it's like delivery technology

or efficiency technology like drug delivery for human health. If you think in cancer drugs 30 years ago, it was also very harmful from human body. You had a lot of side effects because the the drug was not efficient was like just trying to kill everything not not only the cancer cells. Today we have

significantly better drugs that are designed to just release the drug only when they fill the the cancer cell. So that is drug delivery efficiency. We are using that concept on plants but with something that the plant can recognize and create a also a natural reaction on the plant that help us also on on the

protection. >> Okay. So then so then as far as delivery goes is this you said it's an additive that farmers can mix in with the soil or with the >> with the pesticide. >> With the pesticide >> with the chemical. Yes. With the chemicals.

>> Okay. And it and it helps them it helps the plants uh specifically absorb only the pesticides that they need or it helps them better absorb nutrients. Which side are they? >> Yeah. So depending what is the combination if you combine it with fertilizers with nutrients you have better uptake of nutrients. If you

combine it with a crop protection product like a medicine you have better uptake of the medicine. The thing is that if if you know that you are going to have a per uptake, you can spray less. And when I say less, it's like you can spray half of the round up, the the

most common use serviceite in the world, >> and and have the and have the same killing power. >> So, backing up a little bit, uh you had mentioned that you quit your job uh in order to uh in order to do this full-time. Have is this your first company? Have you built other ones

before? Did you ever imagine you were going to be an entrepreneur? Uh yes I am this is my second attempt indeed when I decided to start to became an economist. Normally the the the the natural path for an economist is working in government. It's designing public policy because it's more about governments how the government should

foster the economic development like in general like the country. So I was passionate about that because I I always um was interested about helping to shape the reality and I thought I was cool do it from government. Then I worked for government and I realized that it wasn't that cool that there's a lot of politics

involved and you waste a lot of your energy and I wanted to do something more proactive but I was lack because in very very age um very early in my career I work promoting from government startups. So I fell in love with the startup ecosystem and mindset from the government side. So at that time I quit

my job in the government in government. I built my first startup that my first startup was also close to agriculture. Um but it was a different concept was close to it was 2011 was the beginning of social media. So so it was a different world at the time and we were doing basically a farmers market online.

So was trying to bridge like the farmer to the end consumer in the big city like New York City in Argentina. and we were selling directly from the farm to the city and skipping all the the the the steps in the middle. That helps to reduce a lot the waste of food because

today we waste like 40% of the fruits and vegetable just because it takes too long to reach your house. >> The concept worked so the business is still ongoing but never became a startup because it was super difficult to scale up.

Yeah. >> So that was my first attempt to build something big with impact >> also. >> So then so then you went for that that's kind of a marketplace you you tried to set up a marketplace and scale the marketplace.

>> Um so after leaving that you said you you had gotten you know that was in Buenosides and you came here for some reason. So there was a job that that you had >> right before committing to this.

>> Yes. So I in between so after I I give up of trying with this startup >> I work for I I wanted to be more involved something more edgy in terms of tech. >> So I started to work in private companies related to biotech and nanotech.

>> Great. getting closer to what is now my field and getting used to work with scientists >> that they're different to work with. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And in one of the this works I met one of my co-founders today, the nanotech specialist. Um and that bring me to closer to what we're doing today.

>> Awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so I guess I would just focus on first of all, thank you because that's an awesome trajectory and congratulations with all of that. And also, you know, even though it didn't scale, I think it's still impressive to start something, collect an amount, whatever amount of people it is, collect

an amount of people around an idea that you have and have it continue. You know, it's still persisting. I mean, what is that 15 years later? So, that's, you know, well done. Um so when when you first started uh let's let's start with this. What are the two main things you could choose anything from either that

experience with that startup or in the private sector before you started this company? Uh what are the two biggest influences on the exper the experiences that you had that influence how you navigate this company now? How you're choosing to grow it?

Um I think I was lucky to be able to meet a lot of founders before funding this startup. >> Okay. Because of this work on government, I met like hundreds of them and I was able to talk with many of them. So I was without even knowing I was learning from them and their

experience like what what should you do what should you shouldn't do and that not only motivated to to to be willing to be like them but also give me a lot of advice. So I don't have like one like >> guidance or or someone admired a lot and maybe a few years ago I I admire Ella

Mask like many like because of his capability of innovating and disrupting industries all the time >> not maybe too much as a leader but in his his way of approaching innovation I always find it interesting but I was never like trying to follow his his lead or her path it was like oh this is this

some is it's good to know that this is possible that >> if you if you want to disrupt something >> you you can just try and and do it almost like having like this having learned this from very early it was good because it removed from me the the the afraid of of not trying or or maybe

think that this is impossible coming from Argentina it's like it's the journey is even longer because you need okay from Argentina how do I reach first the US where all the capital is how do I reach global market being in a a small country with a small economy with a lot of complexity crisis all all over time

so all the things are are more steps that you're adding on the journey of building something in Google but then because I met a lot of people that was able to do it I was confident that why not why why why cannot >> yeah so so with so when you started uh the company and you said let's try and

let's do this here's uh here's a a problem that I'm uh that I'm passionate about how how has the product or your understanding of your potential market. Uh, how have both of those things changed since you started the company?

>> A lot. I didn't know anything about agriculture or farming. Neither chemical company. So, we are partnering now with the biggest chemical companies in the world and we are doing business together and I'm I'm flying to China next week to meet one of the chemical companies. So, it's it's crazy.

I needed to learn all of that from scratch. It never work. >> Just asking questions, being curious like like feeling like you're a child again and you are you you don't know nothing and you need to ask everything.

So you're asking why and why and why this and why this. So I was a pain in the ass to my co-founders like why did you do this and this not other thing and so I was learning first about the biotech and nanotech we're using when I finished learning that or finish I kind

of get like the overall idea was I need to understand if this is useful for for the industry because scientists not necessarily study how to solve a problem they study how to develop new knowledge so this is not the same so I had a lot of cool new knowledge but I need to find

about how this knowledge was going to be useful for an actual problem of the industry and I didn't know anything about the industry because I am not an agriculture producer and I am not a chemical manufacturer neither work in both fields before >> but I was asking questions so I was asking meetings with farmers of course

at the beginning then with supermarkets to understand the next step of the value the value chain then food companies then chemical companies companies, local chemical companies, global chemical companies multinationals and even government like NOS's. What what is the third sector thinking? Every every who is involved in some way in this industry because they're worried

because we are abusing chemicals or because they create policies about it or because they are using it to produce food or sell the food or produce the chemical the farmers use. I was asking question to all of them to make sense like why the industry is working in the way it's working and why they are not

using what we we have developed. >> So it was mainly as why why why many times >> how did you how did you find these people >> asking like your network or was like asking like cold outreach. >> Yeah. So it was super useful from the very beginning on this journey startup journey participated on acceleration

program or incubation programs. >> So the first one was one in Chile. So when we decided to do this business we applied to a startup Chile that is a government program to support international startup willing to go to Chile >> and we applied because it was a for free equity free and and was good market to

test ideas and we were accepted. So I spent four four months in Chile. But the good thing of that was not only that I have the excuse to be focused on something for four months full-time, but also that they give us their network and because it's government, they have access like to everyone or at least

>> they can ask for an introduction like they they can do like the warm introduction. So maybe they don't know everyone but if you receive an email from the governments telling telling >> could you give a 30-minut talk to this startup that we brought from Argentina or abroad to Chile to explore the

Chilean market. >> Normally the companies or farmers said yes of course if the government is asking me this why not should be something relevant. Erh so that was super helpful because during four months I was asking these why questions to many many relevant persons and people and then I started to relate okay maybe this

is a global problem and so then I started to ask like I always and the the the meeting like do you know someone else I should ask the same questions. >> Sure. So then the network was multiplying and they they were bringing me outside of Chile and then I was at the even very fast I was talking with

people in the US in Europe in Asia like and everyone was telling me similar stories so I started to understand that the problem was a global problem and the approach was relevant for the industry. So at what point did you feel like you had enough information to make the first hypothesis about how you would go to

market? >> I think after two months of doing this very heavily I was pretty confident. Then the the truth so after a few months I realized that I didn't know anything again. So I need to ask questions again. But um after two months uh we were able to build like the first business hypothesis and that was

we definitely should use this tack this capability of in enhancing the the delivery of crop protection product to enhance some chemicals that are really hard to replace. Everyone is complaining about chemicals. Everyone is willing to use organic but organic are not growing. We should not focus on organic. We should because we can also

enhance the organic practices but it was maybe we should not focus on enhancing organic practices. We should focus on why not reducing glyphosate like the most used chemical in the world like it's used in every continent in every country for every crop and it's like 25% of the global market. So everything that

the farmers use like >> it's it's it's massive use of this product. If we can modify that product and we can convince people to use less of that product that will be significantly more impact impactful but also a really good business and we were convinced about that. Many advisors at the time were telling us that we were crazy that

was going to be impossible to convince >> for going straight to farmers. You mean >> to trying to modify the most common use product in farming? Like it sounds like too big or too complicated. >> Like and it's the most hated product too. Like >> if you read media about achemicals or pesticides, the the the one that is

always coming to media is glyphosate. and glyphosate there is a lot of lawsuits tied to the companies who sell this chemical because there is a lot of human health problem related to to to this chemical. >> So was it was a very complicated topic.

It's like everyone use it but no one want to talk about it because no one's like it but at the same time the global economy relies on this specific chemical >> because we needed to feed people and to produce cotton to produce t-shirts t-shirts.

So it's part of the global economy and it's not it's not easy to be replaced or modified because you are touching out of incentives from different people. >> Interesting. >> But we we we we think that was possible and we are doing that.

>> Yeah. So how so where so what was the first after you had this hypothesis? >> Yeah. >> And you started reaching out to potential customers uh >> for I guess pilots at that time. Yeah. >> Where did you find your initial success?

>> Um, so what we thought it was a success was finding chemical companies willing to try our tech as a proof of concept that was possible to to be used to modify and renew all chemistry. And we thought it was a success because we were validating our hypothesis that the chemical industry was interested on

renewing all chemistry and optimizing the amount of chemicals they were spraying on the field that many people said you're crazy. These companies they love selling chemicals. They will not like to optimize what they sell. Um but then so how we founded Argentina is not a big country. So the first one was a smaller chemical

companies from Argentina. Then we realized that if we wanted to to reach the biggest companies like the the big multinational from the US and Europe that operates globally, we needed to get somehow warm introduction to them. So we proactively started to look for former managers of the industry willing to became our advisors

and we end up finding two former managers. >> Interesting. Yeah. So that's a really good hack when you're doing corporate B2B type of business model bringing earlier in in your journey people who have been working industry not not only because of the knowledge it's also because of the warm introduction potential so helping you to sell. So we

were able to seduce two former global managers of Sententa and Dupont two of the biggest chemical companies and they both introduced us to add to to the chemical companies and today's managers of these companies. So we started the relationship with the biggest chemical companies very early and we also learned how to cooperate with chemical companies

with the smaller chemical companies locally in Argentina. So we were doing both things at the same time like small companies to learn and big companies because was the ultimate goal. >> Fascinating. >> So >> yeah, but it didn't work.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. Cuz I was just about to say like where you know where where are you headed now? But if it didn't work then you got to continue the story. >> No, no, it's it's working but it's it's not working as we expected. So it's always a learning process. So we thought

that the that we were doing good like we found the success we we were validating that the industry needed this. So we validated that at least the hypothesis that what we were doing was new innovative and useful and but we never we was never able to close a commercial deal. We were stuck on a infinite loop

of R&D like they were it felt always like they were playing around with our tech. They weren't actually taken seriously. >> Well, just quick question. Were these paid or were these free pilots? >> Some of them paid, some of them free.

So, at the beginning they were free. Then we started to charge them especially to separate the ones who were playing around with the one who was was serious. So, that's also a really good advice. charge about for everything because it's the best way to to reveal the real incentives of people or willingness to do things

>> more like an economist mindset. >> Yeah. So where did so where did you go then? Where where where are we now? You know how did you navigate that? So very recently like 18 months ago we realized that that wasn't working at least not evolving as fast as we needed because we are

startups. So we need to show progress to our investors and we pivot in terms of our go to market and we decided to make a tweak on the technology and develop a little bit better the the tech and create a product that the farmers can actually buy directly from us. And the goal was and still is mainly to

prove value proposition and willingness to pay and value creation to the chemical companies. If they were not taking us seriously for some reason, maybe they can take us more serious if they start to see that they are missing a business and not just missing a tech opportunity.

So we decided to not abandon the chemical companies but to split the efforts in two and we started to talk again with farmers and with all the evidence that we had that we knew that it works with with specific crops and specific chemicals that was a good idea and we we could create a lot

of value for farmers for some uses. And in that process, one food company came to us, very, very big company, Nestle, Nespresso. They came to us and they asked, I saw you pitching in a competition. We were one of the judges.

>> I know that your tech is for chemical companies and not for us, but can we use it directly on the field because we need it. And I said, but why? Why are you I would never thought about >> you guys using our tech. How will you use it and why?

>> And they said no because we have a problem. We we are a we we are in a squeeze in between >> the the end consumer that are are demanding us globally to be as the the most responsible as possible and use less chemicals in the food we sell in the coffee the the cocoa beans that

we source. that we have a problem because even though we want and our clients are ready to pay for it, we cannot make the farmers to became more sustainable because the farmers don't want and it's not because they are evil.

It's because their family relies on the income or that the the crop produce for them. So it's family income and they feel that if they replace a chemical that they have been using for 40 years with a new bacteria made type of crop protection product there is a a chance that it doesn't work and if it doesn't

work they lose an entire season and entire season is an entire year of income for the family. there's no way they will risk an entire year of income for the family to try something that maybe is more sustainable and works as good as the chemical.

>> So they are facing this problem that they cannot convince the the supply chain to to replace chemicals or not abuse the chemicals and they do quality control. So they know that they are abusing the chemicals. So the question was legit is like h can we use yours to optimize what they're doing because maybe the solution is not

asking them to replace is use the same as they have been using but less and that is good for us at least is better than what we're doing now that we're stuck. >> Wow. >> So that brought an oh that's super cool that's maybe our way to approach the market. So we started to then ask

introduction again using our network using our seration programs and can you introduce me to more food companies? Is this just this company or is everyone is like them? Like every big food company is the same. And we started to find a pattern like every food company especially the global ones who are has a

brand they need to protect. So people criticize them and they also source globally from many many small farmers around the world. They're suffering the same problem. So then we focus our go to market on that and we have now our first two early adopters food companies that just finished the first season year season of growing food using our

tech. They're happy using them. So we are in the I think the most exciting part of the business because we making farmers happy. We are making the food companies, our client happy and we are also proving the chemical companies that we were right that we can do business with this tech.

>> Wow. Well done, Matias. That is a good that's a that's a good story. That's that's I'm happy that it's working out and and as far as uh so the the based on that I mean that's a really cool place to you know you know I felt like the story was like this

roller coaster like like the real life being a startup building a startup is a roller coaster. You never know. You're down the road. >> Never is a span. >> Right. Right. Right. What uh what is your as far as growth, as far as go to market now that you're in this place?

What is the biggest hurdle that you're facing? And how is it also an opportunity? >> No. Regulatory. It's a really it's a difficult challenge. >> Something that is not obvious because not everyone think about this. But because what we are spraying on the field is something that end ups in our food. that must be revealed by someone

in the government >> or should be at least so because end ups in our foot. So what you need to do is not super complicated but we should we we we we need to mandatory to present the toxicity studies about our technology to prove that we are not going to harm human health because of

spraying this on the field. And the problem with that is that you need to synchronize a lot the bureaucracy that you cannot control the timing of the bureaucracy with the timing of the go to market that pitifully we have only one season per year because plants grow only one time a year that is spring summer.

>> So if we lose that window of opportunity of selling we need to wait a year. >> Yeah. So that is the most difficult thing and we already lost this year of selling in the US because the EPA approval was delayed and there's a lot of problems in in the US at this moment.

There's budget cut and that is affecting >> the the the government capacity of reviewing this information. So was it took more time than we expected. So we lose the season. So you lose entire year of sales >> because of that. managing that expectation and making that work with the cash flow, investment and everything

like production forecast is a little bit chaotic because it's out of our control. So it's we kind of assume how long it's going to take but then you never know. Are you able to apply if you were able to do research elsewhere in the world where there is a a growing season and

then do the research there and then bring it back to the US? Does that satisfy anything? >> Yeah, of course. Um, so we we do that and that's why we are still doing business in Argentina and we do >> both hephers and north because that in that way we have two selling season per

year or growing season per year. So we can do studies in both. >> So when we are not doing studies in Argentina, we're doing studies in the US and the other way around and that help us a lot to accelerate.

Um but then when you want to sell to farmers, apple growers here in the US in New York, you need to have the product approved. If not, they cannot buy from you. It's not legal to sell it and you cannot do it.

>> Very good. But uh with with with all of this uh with all this work to be done and all the work that you have done, I mean you know uh ending up in this place uh I'm curious what inspires you?

Um h um so motivates so it motivates me a lot building something that is relevant and it's not only because it it feels important to to have to have food security so to have real food and less with less chemicals as possible but also to feed everyone in the world. So I think that is if I can help with that is

it's a really significant problem to help with. >> So that is something that I'm proud of it. So it's not like it's necessarily my dream of my like all my life I dream to work with this. It's just I'm proud of being part of this.

What personally motivates me is that our journey that is not linear journey as you have learned >> I think is going to motivates others to follow our path and we always need to as humanity we always need to keep improving and innovating. So like proving that you can do something uh and change something

uh I motivates me like not thinking that only in what we have changed but also in what others are going to change but because they saw us changing something. In the same way that the being able to see other entrepreneurs, founders developing their own ideas motivated me to be willing to be like them. feeling

the same thing like now I have the responsibility or or the or the lucky to be hopefully motivating others others to to do the same. >> So that's that's I'm inspired. >> That's good. Okay, good. >> This story is inspiring to me. So you you're already doing your job. Uh if if anyone else if anyone else uh wasn't

inspired or uh encouraged to to follow along or or get in touch, what's the best way to do that? >> They can find me on LinkedIn. Erh, I am the only one with my name. I have a a Spanish name and that is common only in Argentina and a surname that is Italian

that is very infrequent even in Italy. So, Matias Filotsi. Hopefully, you can write it down so they can spell it correctly because >> it it'll be in the It'll be in the description. People can just copy and paste. How about that?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that that will be the best. >> Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I'm excited for where you guys are going and I look forward to our second episode in a few months after you guys, you know, have grown a little bit more.

>> Thank you, Blake. >> Thank you.