From Water Tech to Lithium | Devesh Sharma, CEO @ Aquatech

Oh, today on the show, we have Devesh Sharma. Devesh is the CEO of a company called Aquatech out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, a very close relative to Philadelphia where we're based. Aquatech provides equipment solutions for the water industry. The reason that I think that description is so vague is because first, Devesh does a

much better job describing what the company does, but also they've been around for a long time. And so what they do has evolved very significantly since the inception of the company by Devesh's father about 50 years ago. Many of the people we have on this podcast that are leaders of companies have founded startups,

you know, four, five, six, one, two years ago. So to get the perspective of someone who's led a company for as long as Aquatech has been around provides really good insight about what it means to scale and think and try to be innovative and creative even when you're at the size and the age that Aquatech

is. So it's very interesting and educational for me. I know it will be for you as well. Thank you as always to our sponsors CleanTech Growth Lab. If you're looking to grow in CleanTech, they are the people to do it with. And the producers of this podcast, Crazed and Friends. And with that, I give you

Devesh. Oh, welcome to another episode of The Grove. Shout out to our sponsors mentioned just before this. Without them, it would not be possible to do awesome things and talk to people doing awesome things like Devesh. Welcome. >> Thank you, Blake. Good to be here.

>> Yeah, what's going on? So just as I was telling you, and this is what I'm excited to talk to you about. A lot of the people on this podcast are startup founders, two, three, four, five years, things like this.

And there's a lot that can be learned from running a company over a long period of time, and that's exactly what you have done. So, uh before we get into uh the things that you've learned in that process, uh if you could give a brief introduction of yourself and what you're building.

>> All right. So, uh well, thank you for the opportunity. My name is Devesh Sharma. I'm the CEO of Aquatech. Um we're 45-year-old company uh founded and headquartered out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And we're basically in the process and water technologies business. We're As you can see Aquatech, we're we're traditionally a a water technology

company. But uh in our journey, uh very technically oriented, uh we've also also expanded into process technologies. And one example of that is we are a complete technology provider of uh for producing lithium crystals that go into EV batteries. So, um you could say, you know, water is made up of complex processes and we've taken that

superpower and started uh expanding to to other markets as well over the past decade. >> So, when you uh when you originally got involved with the company, uh were you in a similar position? Were you in a similar market? Were you running a similar technology? What did the company look like?

>> No, the the company looked very very different. Um it um it actually is uh a family business. Um the company was started by my father in 1981. And um he had an untimely passing 10 years later in 1991.

And uh my brother Venky, who's our executive chairman, he took the company over when he was 24 years old. Um and uh that summer, uh I was uh believe it or not uh probably in ninth or 10th grade.

And I started working summers. And um eventually, I came into the business full-time in 1997. Um and uh we've been working together, me and Venky, ever since uh with with a great great team of people that uh a lot of them have been here that long and and and have been part of the journey.

Um but no, the the company um was probably 10 times smaller than it is today back then. Maybe more. I'm just doing uh uh mental math, but uh uh let's just say yeah, it was it was a very very very different organization.

>> Well, props to you guys, first of all, for uh aside from the uniqueness of your journey, the family business, uh figuring out dynamics, you know, working with your brother for that long, scaling a company, growing a company for that long, period, uh in anything is uh is impressive. So, I think that's that

that's very uh that's very cool that you guys have done that. So, um then a little a little bit for you personally, if you've been working on it since 9th, 10th grade, uh how how has your uh interest in the subject matter or your uh I guess when you were thinking about your future and you wanted to

continue being involved, how has that changed over time? Did that ever waver, go back and forth? Did you ever leave, come back? >> Uh no, it's it's it's funny you say that. I I I think um you know, I I always, even before that when I was even very young, I I I

remember being in elementary school and you know, uh doing one of those uh you know, what do you want to be when you grow up and you know, I I said, "Oh, I want to be a chemical engineer." and I knew what I saw in the the the the shop here, a crane lifting a vessel, and I I

made a little, you know, construction paper. You're probably too young to remember construction paper, Blake, but >> Oh, I remember construction paper. My my mom's a preschool teacher, so it's a little bit of [laughter] a of a cheat sheet.

>> I I remember this vividly and and and so I never it wasn't like like you know because because the story of of you know my my brother's a little little different. He you know at that time the company was literally a startup in the 80s and and you know there there was a

50% chance that he could have gone to medical school or something. So so he he didn't know but when I when you know 10 years later when I was there as you know kind of I I never felt an obligation. I always felt that this was my calling and this is what I wanted to do.

That being said, I got two boys. One's 19, one's 15 and I do want them because it's something that I never did was was I want them to work somewhere else. I want them to get that experience. That's that's that's a big big thing for me.

>> Yeah, of course. Well, that's I think that's again something very unique about your story then that I you know didn't read anywhere was the fact that this was always something that that was calling to you and something that you never felt like you had to do but something you wanted to do. So I'm I'm

very grateful for that. So then so then back to when when we had started I guess if you could just give an idea you know you spoke to what you guys are doing now with with water treatment and and and you said extracting lithium specifically.

>> Yeah, basic basically basically producing lithium you know to to go into the process for making EV batteries. Obviously lithium is a big part of those and you need extremely high purity lithium crystals. So you know you basically start with a brine that is you know has a certain amount of lithium in it and you have to do a lot

of process steps to to purify and extract and and and refine that lithium into crystals and we do all of that. >> Okay, got it. So, so has that always been a main product of of Aquatech or, you know, >> No.

>> was was was there was there a specific time where you guys decided to go in this direction? And what was the company based on beforehand? >> You know, I I wish >> [clears throat] >> I wish um um I could say that, you know, we we sat in a conference room in 2018 and

somebody gave us a a a market data report that said lithium is a big thing, and we said, "Oh, well, you know, let's call three guys in here and say, 'You guys go and focus on lithium.'" And 5 years later, we're into lithium.

Maybe sometimes it happens that way. >> Yeah. >> I've never seen it. Um you know, I would I would say um uh you know, it's like when you watch a hockey game and uh um you know, somebody shoots a slap shot, it goes here and there, and and boom, it hits the goalie right in the in in the

face mask and doesn't go into the goal, and you say, "Oh, look at that, the goalie's lucky." Well, you can say he's lucky, you can say he was in the position that his head was there. He was good, too. You got to be both, right? You got to be good and and there's a little bit of luck in

everything, but if you're not good, you know, either on its own doesn't work, right? So, >> Right. >> So, it it's very interesting. I think that's a good story for startups and founders is is you you got to keep pedaling. You you you got to keep moving. So, so the story of lithium

is, well, Aquatech's a water technology company. >> Okay. >> And you know, what you know, what we're all about from our inception is when we started in the early '80s, we basically took tap water and filtered it or or purified it for industrial uses for, you know, steel companies or power plants.

>> Okay. >> And if you fast forward 45 years in what we do in the water, it's not all that much different, meaning, you know, whatever our our systems provide and and deliver delivers for industrial purposes, but there's a huge difference on the front end. Nobody's using tap water anymore.

Over the years, over the decades, the water that industries have had to use as a starting point have gotten worse and worse and worse. They're taking, you know, in the '80s, you know, different uh uh uh um surface waters, river water, lake water, well water that's very brackish.

It eventually moved to sea water. It eventually moved to taking municipal sewage and recycling it for industrial purposes, and it eventually got to recycling their own waste water. Okay, so and and what Aquatech has really excelled in is all of the technologies and approaches, and and we're basically the foremost company in the industry to

deal with the most difficult waters, okay? So, when you recycle water, you're recycling it 90, 95, 99%, you're concentrating the waste. What do you do with that waste stream? >> Mhm. >> Okay? You have to get into what's called zero liquid discharge, and that's basically evaporative technology, and we ended up acquiring that capability and

everything. And, you know, from since probably 1998 to today, we've we've, you know, honed our capability to do what's called zero liquid discharge, and that's basically taking a water stream, recycling it to as much as possible, and then taking the the the concentrated waste and evaporating it evaporating it to recover more water, and then taking

the waste into a solid discharge, you know, solid land fillable or, you know, you know, kind of non-liquid waste, right? >> Mhm. >> So, what is that? Where we we we know how to deal with brine, okay? So, we have all of the technologies, it's just the other side of the coin. You don't care about the

water. You care about what's what's in what are the salts you're creating and if any of those are reusable. So, so you have the technology or you're very close to having the technology. And we ended up uh um building a vertical around mining. Okay, so we go to a market and say, "We want to go and

go to mining companies and say, how can we help you with your water issues?" Well, it just so happens that at that time the you were one of our our key uh um um leaders in in our mining group in a in a you know, previous life had some exposure when lithium wasn't even a

thing. >> Mhm. >> He said, "Well, you know, while I'm going to these companies to to deal with their water issues, this lithium in mining there's there's a little bit of a of a of a overlap between lithium and and the mining industry. Same people, uh same engineering companies. It's It's It's kind of It's a related ecosystem."

So, he said, "Well, we have the technologies, why don't we get into seeing if we can utilize those technologies into uh um making lithium?" And voilà, you know, 6-7 years later, we're uh um a leader in that field and it's it's a growing field because you don't even need lithium just for e-

electronic vehicles, you need them for battery storage. And and it's it's a really exciting industry. >> Got it. Okay, so we are definitely going to talk then about after you made that decision, what the steps you made to validate that hypothesis and and expand into the market. I want to bookmark that because uh another foundational piece of

this conversation, if people are familiar, how would you describe like what word would you use to describe the industry that you're in? And then secondarily, how have you seen it change over the course over the period of time that you've been in it?

One of the things you mentioned was that industrial users, the the source water if I understand correctly, the quality of it's getting worse and worse over time. That's very interesting perspective. What So, what is the the industry and and what other kinds of perspectives like that do you have?

>> Oh, so you know, I I feel very fortunate that that water is so universal. So, I'm in very many industries. We just talked about the lithium industry and we talked about the mining industry, but I'm also into energy, oil and gas, power, refining, all use water, all create water or liquid waste which we

address. Microelectronics, one of the the hottest industries for us right now is semiconductor. Semiconductor uses a a very very high purity water. It's called ultra pure water to to deal in the manufacturing process for microchips and they have increasing issues with how to effectively deal with their waste water.

So, I I in a way see every industry because water is an issue with with with all of those industries. >> Mhm. Yeah, that's that that's a that's a that's an incredibly consistent answer because other people that I speak to, you know, investors or or or startups in largely, I guess speaking water tech,

you know, they they describe it very similarly where they say, "Well, what isn't the water industry rather than what is it the water industry?" Cuz you could look at agriculture. You know, agriculture wouldn't be it wouldn't produce anything if it wasn't for water.

So, is that in the water industry or not? It's I guess, you know, the the details of the of the language it matters for investors cuz they're trying to put together thesis and things like this, but in general I think for me, you know, it's just a it's a very it's fun. It's

interesting. So, is it is it specifically interesting to you that you have language to define your business or is it does it work for you that you operate in so many industries? >> Well, I I think, you know, you you should define it and to define it better to give you more of a kind of a succinct

answer to the question is we're in industrial water and process technologies. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, a very high proportion more than probably 90% of what we do is industrial water. >> Okay. >> And there's never absolutes. You never say you're in one thing. There's always I'm a big fan of the 80/20 rule. There's

there's always some exceptions to the rule coloring outside the the lines and the way I like to say it is we're in industrial water and and process technologies. Okay. And in the cases where we're not in industrial where we do deal with infrastructure municipalities is for desalination of seawater.

Okay. So, for like cities that that are on the coast and they need need need to to desalinate seawater. So, but why why that {quote} departure is because it's a very advanced form of water treatment. So, you could say industrial water, process technologies, and if we're stray from that it's because it's it's

unconventional resources. Unconventional water resources. Recycling waste. Desalinating seawater and that's where it's adjacent to to our core. >> Okay, got it. So, and thank you because uh Given this, I feel like we can go to million directions with the conversation cuz I'm interested in every single one of these applications that you have. I

literally last week I just had um a very awesome interview with uh a guy out of uh near Allentown that's that's building a uh a desalination company. Uh I've had a a a few conversations with with uh innovative desalination startups that are using these different technologies to do so. So, very interesting um very interesting space.

But given I get you know let's let's go let's stick with this label. Uh you said it industrial water. What what was the label that you used? >> Industrial water and process technologies. >> Okay. So, with that label how have you seen it change over the over the time that you've been in it?

>> Well, we've seen a change with the the the the technological challenges have have exponentially risen over the past 20 years. Where it was you know, kind of very um for the lack of a better term sedate back in the '90s and suddenly you know, the the acceleration at which these unconventional water resources needed as

the source for industries to use their water and and with that the requirement for technologies and and and you know, different methods to to effectively purify this water have just just gone like this over the past 20 years. So, so that's a big one. Um I think the recognition of industries like like the importance water holds

um have moved up from the local plant level to the boardroom over the past probably 20 years kind of very steadily where you know, it's it's the issue of water risk that is known by you know, the top management of the company uh because if you don't have access to water or you don't have the ability to

discharge or deal with your water issues well, it could impact what you're making. It could impact your your you know, how much you know, chips you produce or you know, how much in the food and beverage case how much of your product you produce and things like that. So So I think those are the two

big ones that come to mind. >> Okay. So it would So within those themes, I guess if if if we're talking about from a a client perspective, we're talking about these boardrooms if they've increased in their awareness of the importance of water, what are on the flip side, what are some common misconceptions you see of these same

boardrooms? >> I can tell you one that that you'll probably like. I don't think it's boardroom related, but it's just water water industry related. Yeah. And one of the biggest misconceptions is, you know, I I I if if I had a nickel for anytime everybody talked to me and said, "Oh, you're in water. Water's going to be the

next oil." Okay. And And meaning that you know, wars are going to be fought over water. Well, yeah, maybe maybe a little bit of that in certain places, but but the the the the big thing about water is we undervalue it.

So and I don't think that's changing anytime soon. Um so water is um you know, what's the word I'm looking for when when you know, it's subsidized. Okay. So So the cost of water and and and you know, that's fine.

It's It's all about scarcity. So So water's a very localized issue. So you can never uh um um you know, generalize water. It's It's always very local issue, you know. Um in a place where there's a lot of lakes, there's a lot of natural sources of water, um the value of water is relatively low and

rightfully so because it's abundant. Now, when you move to places where there's fast growth, the the the value creep of water that that the users pay for versus the reality is is mismatched. Okay? So, that's a problem because because if if a a user has to pay X for water, and to do something, you know, more

treatment or more recycling, they have to pay a little more, they won't do it because they can get water for less. But, the real value of that water is not priced right. Whereas, something like oil or something like energy is is priced on on the market. So, so I think I think the value of water issue I'm I'm kind

of, you know, not directly answering your question, but but that's that's where it comes to mind. Big misconception is people saying, "Oh, you know, water's like oil." Well, water's not an oil. Oil is traded as a commodity. Water is >> No, no. I I mean, yeah, my my question was specific to to to I guess the

clients you deal with, but that's a great point that you make. And my follow-up to that, uh which wouldn't have been possible, you know, without the answer you gave is, how in your opinion does that impact the environment for innovation in water if there's this misconception around it and it's undervalued?

>> Well, it slows down the adoption of new technology. Mhm. Because um there's always a curve in any industry to do anything, um new technology starts at a certain cost, and and it takes time, and then you got to cross that chasm, and then with adoption through a combination of economy of scale, through a combination of more

adoption through the learning about the technology, the cost decreases. >> Mhm. >> But that early time to cross that chasm, if the alternative is not spending that money, it's not going to be done. So so so because of that, the adoption of new technology takes a lot more time in our industry.

>> So so that's interesting because simultaneously you're saying that there you know, you said earlier that the kind the acceleration of innovation as far as new technologies to address water and things like that has skyrocketed. And at the same time, which are both true, you know, the the the environment for innovation is not as

you know, there's not as much of an appetite. So how how is this happening at the same time? Is it just because >> it's all relative. It could happen much faster. >> I see. I see. Okay. Understood. So speaking of innovation and things you know, that going back to the the decision that you

made internally to pursue this this this lithium product. How was it So you said it's about six or seven years ago. So going from that initial conversation where someone had the idea, someone had some insight to market. How did you as a company that is you know, you're 45 years old, something like this.

How do you guys approach ideas in this way? How how is it? Do you assign a team and effectively have like an internal startup? Do you have more structured processes for investigating different novel products and and customer segments? How did you go about that?

>> Well, we're growing. We're evolving as a company. So you know, what we do now is different to what we did three years ago or six years ago. But we we do do a lot you know, we have a a market intelligence group that that really tries to um um study markets and, you know, kind of map

the potential, map the clients, uh um report on trends. Um we, you know, what one of the things that's the most challenging is is resourcing things properly because it's always uh you know, do you do you do it or do you try to make, you know, 17, you know, one person wear 17 different hats?

Um and there was a little bit of that in the beginning. You know, we said, "Oh, you know, it's it's it's not a business. It's just another it's just another process project." And and, you know, then that turned into, "Oh, well, it's going to be uh you know, part of our vertical focused on on mining and

lithium." And today it's a business at Aquatech. It's it's lithium and critical minerals. It's >> Mhm. >> It's uh appropriately to to what we see in the market, but it's it's it's always an evolution to do that. Um and uh that's the biggest learning uh in in the growth of a company is is that that that

trade-off because, you know, you you know, we we talked when we started this uh uh podcast that you know, well well, you know, we're a 45-year-old very established company, but sometimes I feel a little bit like like a startup, you know, uh definitely over our journey over the past 20 years. I um I I don't say total

startup because um um that's very tough. That's I I really kind of uh admire what people do to start something from scratch, but from the entrepreneurial nature of it and the high-growth nature of it, there are some overlaps and >> Totally. Sure.

>> experiencing those as well. >> Okay, great. So >> I say a lot of times I'll sit in the room and I'll say I'll pound my fist, I'll say, "We're not IBM guys. You know, we you know, it's not like you're going to, you know, write this request and and put it, you

know, roll roll it into a one of those air tubes and it's going to go to another floor and they're going to get it and well >> [laughter] >> something's going to be delivered to you. We we got to have some urgency here. We got to have some radical collab You know, I I I

I I did a town hall last week and I and you know, my my my parting things are always maniacal urgency and radical collaboration is is you know, we got to keep moving and and and we're we're still in that high growth atmosphere that entrepreneurial atmosphere that I never ever want to lose as much as we do grow.

>> Yeah, very interesting. I think they you just alluded to one of one of my final questions which is when I started this podcast, I did not have as much of an appreciation for the composition of a team as I do now. I've spoken to so many founders and investors and other ecosystem players that say,

yes technology, yes market opportunity this, but if you don't have the right composition of people, especially when it's 1 2 3 5 10 people, then it doesn't matter, the company will not go anywhere. It does not have any longevity, all of these things. And so, that was just something where in my ignorance, you know, I said, wow,

perfect technology, anybody could bring it to market if there's a if you know, if there's a market opportunity and and you have the right solution. So, from curating a culture, creating it from scratch, there's there's a lot of literature on that. But having a 45-year-old company, you know, approaching it the way that

you're saying, encouraging people to have the mindset where you're like, we're not IBM, things like this. How do you go about from your position setting a tone of culture? I mean, I think that that phrase that you just said was was was really cool and catchy. And and I think it helps, but how do you approach

that that team building aspect, that culture building aspect? And then uh not only how do you set it, but how does it uh sustain, I'd say. >> It's the toughest thing to do. It's the most important thing to do. Um and I think I think it's constant communication. I mean, you know, we

we've been having discussions here as well as that, you know, we need to do more town halls. We need to do more mini uh uh engagements. We have to do more offsites with our management to align with them on what we're trying to achieve and and how we're going to achieve it. And it's I would say just

just to distill it to two, it's it's constant communication and it's leading by example. Okay? So so I I think those two things um you know, you you have to um you know, so I can do a town hall and you know, one of the things in my town hall is I I make this

joke, you know, I I put up, you know, John F. Kennedy's Profiles in Courage and I got AI to change it to then I tell everybody he wrote a second book. It's Profiles in Maniacal Urgency. It's It's you know, and and and everybody's supposed to laugh. They don't and you know, it's like a dad joke, you know,

I've I've gone to that level. I've gone to dad joke level. >> Yeah, yeah. >> But but um you know, trying to get people's mindset and then we celebrate them. We we say, you know, this person did this and and and it's it it doesn't always have to be some big huge company changing

achievement. It can be, you know, something very very small, but but exhibiting that that um um culture, exhibiting that that, you know, that that initiative. And and we say, "Okay, even if we do this per quarter, we need to do something that reminds everybody this month." And that, you know, it culture doesn't change overnight. It's It's It's

It takes time. And and I find that it's toughest thing to do and I agree with whatever your other guests have said about this is there's nothing more important than the team. Uh and I agree you can have the best Do you know how many better technologies are out there that never see the light of day because

they didn't have the team that could bring it to I don't know that today the best technology is always uh the one that wins out. It's it's not not necessarily the case. >> No, it's not. I mean, absolutely It's one of the the the biggest things that that this experience has done for me where I was

completely on one side and now I'm completely on the other side. So, it's cool to hear you reinforce that. Um few more questions. First thing, is there of course there is, but let's say what has been one of the most impactful mistakes that you've made that that drive how you navigate the company now?

>> Oof. Um where do I start? I if I'm if I'm if I'm if I'm hesitating here, it's not because I can't think of a mistake I've made. It's like which one? There's so many. >> [laughter] >> Okay.

Uh so, what what is a a good example? Um but I I think I think the one that really comes to mind is um not taking decisions in a timely manner. >> Hm. >> Um it it especially from my position, um I'm constantly trying to correct those mistakes and saying, you know, not

every cuz not every decision's going to be right, but meaning the only wrong one is not making one and vacillating and and that slows down the organization because you want to make something perfect and sometimes you have to move, you have to make a decision, live with the consequences if it's wrong. Um um

you know, and you always it's it's very cliché, but it's true. It's that it's it's it's how you recover from mistakes, not not necessarily not making them, right? That's That's what builds character, and that's what builds character of an organization, too.

>> Right. >> So, that That's That's one that comes to mind. >> Cool. Well, that's Well, well done. I mean, that ties very, very much into Maniacal Urgency, if I'm understanding it correctly. You know, you have the certainty to make decisions, and non-decisions uh are are in conflict with that. So, yeah, nicely done. That was good.

Um All right, two two more questions for you. So, I have uh I'm curious as far as you could talk about this this lithium example that we spoke about, uh or, you know, another facet of Aquatech. But, what is um as far as growth goes, you know, as far as going to market, what is the biggest

hurdle that you're facing right now, or one of them, and how is it also an opportunity? >> This is not one where I'm thinking of which hurdle. I I I actually feel uh that there's not many hurdles. Um I I I feel that there's great opportunity out there, and that's what I always tell tell everyone within

Aquatech is that, you know, sky's the limit for us if we just keep pedaling forward and and and and moving forward uh with Maniacal Urgency and Radical Collaboration. >> Right. Right. >> But, I think um you know, it's it's everything you said about the team, the culture. Um One of our challenges is is is

recruitment and and bringing on people, and, you know, um and and and getting everybody aligned on the same uh the same page, and getting all the arrows moving in the right direction, and the energy that takes, the communication that takes. You know, you're in a technical business, and you think, you know, your challenges are

going to be in the lab of, you know, how to how to most cost-effectively, you know, at the lowest operating cost, produce 99.97% lithium crystals. And I'm not saying that's easy, but that's that's science. That's very definable. The whole thing about about making sure you can grow an organization with the right culture,

bringing on new people, making them work together. Uh um is art. And and um I don't like to use the word hurdle, but it's it's the biggest challenge. Definitely. >> And >> Yeah. >> I I kind of I really love that. I think I I I you know, that there's an opportunity there because if you if you build this

great team, you know, one one example is a couple years ago, Blake, we >> [sighs and gasps] >> um you know, kind of you know, had a real challenge in hiring graduate engineers. >> Huh. >> Okay. And I think it was a mixture of maybe our recruiting process, maybe those those those kids didn't know what

they were expecting. We're also in the middle of, you know, everybody loves to work from home and, you know, I always say that, you know, we can always be flexible. People can always work from home, but if you're out of school, if you work from home, how you going to learn from anybody, you

know? So so a little bit of that and and we weren't we weren't having great great luck there. And we implemented a a intern program. And and we're in our fourth year now of of our intern program and it is it's the best time of year for me. I just love meeting the new interns,

talking to them. Uh um it it really gives gives us all in the organization energy. Um and we it's this great opportunity over a summer for them to learn more and understand if they want to be in this company, if they want to be in this business. And it gives us an idea to say is this person

the right fit for what we're doing, you know? And we've been very successful of it. I think we hire more than 70% of our interns. >> Nice. >> Um and they come on and and you know, uh we're working more on job rotation and and and creating a program where they can see other sides of the business so

they don't just come into one department and that's their fate for the you know, their whole career and um and and because I I really feel that although we have to do a lot of things as we grow to hire you know, um across the gambit. You know, we've hired a lot of very senior

leaders recently and it's super exciting to work with people that that come from different organizations that you respect and bring different ideas. That's that's a a great as well. But but over time if you really want to build a culture, you want to you want to grow from within as much as you can and and and and you want

to build that from from the ground up and and that's something we're working on a lot. >> Nice. A very interesting uh solution and I think something that earlier stage startups can take advantage of if there are organizations that provide internship programs for for um for startups and that is inspiring to me. So, I'm going to think on that and

I'm going to follow up with some more questions about how you guys do that after the episode. But last question for you Devesh, with all of this work to be done uh in front of you, all this energy that you have, what inspires you?

>> What inspires me? Oh, I can find inspiration just walking down the street. I mean, my my my kids inspire me these >> that. >> These uh new recruits, these graduate engineers inspire me, the the new executives that I can learn from that that you know, a lot of times in certain aspects run rings around me and and and

are bringing new uh a new perspective to the organization inspire me. I I I I I can find inspiration in in many many things. >> Good. And that is if if if anyone out there is thinking it, it is not a cop-out answer because I have I've had similar answers to to that question and I think honestly

that is what that is a crucial ingredient to not only when you're doing startup things and things are very difficult but just in general when you're going like you're saying just continuing to pedal facing failure and challenges you know being able to find inspiration in in many things cuz there are many things to be inspired by

is is one way to to get fuel and continue you know charging forward. So well done with that. I appreciate the energy. I appreciate the perspective that you have. I think it's really cool you guys are doing. Congratulations on the on the direction and the success that you've had with this lithium project. So

if anyone else was inspired what's the best way to follow along with the story or or get in touch? >> Um I can give you my email and and our our website and we can take it from there.

>> Cool. We'll put it in the description. Well, I appreciate your time and I look forward to the next one. >> Okay. Thanks very much. Thanks for reaching out Blake. Appreciate it. >> All right.